Guns, Fear & Self-Control

0:05 Yo yo, this is BradQuan, host of the Weirdinary podcast and recently I was asked what my favorite restaurant is and without a doubt I said Son of Egg, located at 483 Broadway in Renle, New York. Why Son of Egg? Because every time I step foot in this establishment, I instantly feel a celebration of community, creativity, intellectualism, and humanity. And I mean, it goes without saying, but I'm gonna say it anyway. The food is spectacular. Now, why is this spectacular, you ask? Well, my god. Because whenever I bite into it, I feel like I'm at home. Tappiness on a bay. 483 Broadway, New York. You want to eat? Eat with the best.

1:16 All right. All right. Yo yo. Welcome to another episode of Weird Dairy. I'm your host, BradQuan, and today I have a very, very special guest. He is a rockstar salesman with New Scotland Spirits. He is an intellectual and history buff. He attended Bishop McInn High School and studied at Fton at Fulton Malgomery Community College as well as the College of St. Rose prior to his closing. He is a Capitol Region resident and longtime friend of mine. Yes, he is very long time. Yes, indeed. He is a lifelong gun user and owner and is a firm believer in the second amendment to the US Constitution. And today he'll share his perspective on gun ownership, responsibility, and public safety. Ladies and gentlemen, my brother Greg Crawford. Brother, how the [bleep] you doing? [laughter] Oh god, dude. Let me just say I am um again I I I want to thank you for taking the time out of your day after a long day at work.

2:25 Yes. To uh to come here and do this, man. Uh you know, I think it goes without saying that I appreciate you uh dearly as a human, as an intellectual. Uh you're a good man, Greg. You are one of my favorite people, Brad. I I appreciate that. [laughter] Appreciate that. You know, you know what I'm saying? You know, I was bugging out here for a while, Greg. Makes me happy to hear that. Damn. You were, but we always had faith you'd come back to us. Oh, thank God. Thank God. You know, I didn't know what the hell was going to happen. You know what I'm saying? I mean, I didn't either, but you [laughter] never know. But you get hope. You get hope, man. You hope for the best. [laughter] You know, it you're somebody that I I appreciate your insight so much. You always have so many great things to say, man. Today I want to uh I want to pick your brain about guns and gun control to get your um to get your ideology just around the uh whole concept that that's been very controversial for a very long time. You know what I'm saying? Uh for obvious reasons. Yeah. For obvious reasons.

3:29 Um and I want to start it off by asking you, dude. Um how did your upbringing shape what you believe about guns today? Let me Okay, let me put you like this. Gun ownership sort of in the United States, you could define it into two groups. There's type A people who were raised into it and like in raised into it, it's almost like they have people will have like like they just they're raised into it. It's their it's part of their whole lifestyle. Okay. They may not even have a lot of guns, but they'll have like a 22 that they shoot little rodents with or they play with. They have a shotgun and they'll have and they'll end up having some sort of now it would be like an assault rifle type thing. Okay. That something also they play with like some sort of black rifle type [bleep] Okay, understand. And then there's other people that are much more like home defense. They get scared by something or they encounter this or like whatever the chaos like especially our chaos today. I'm sure gun ownership like especially during COVID like 2022 when all those riots were happening.

4:36 Yeah. George Floyd riots, gun gun purchases went up like exponentially. Okay. Okay. So, I'm definitely a type one person. Okay. So, to say how it like how it affected me. Yeah. I mean, I was shaped you. How it shaped me like genuinely one of my one of my fondest and earliest memories is being taught how to shoot by my dad. Totally. I've like four. Oh wow. Like and it was very like it's like a little spinning metal target. You have a 22. Like we'd set up sandbags. He would literally line it up for me and just telling me like how to look down a sight, how to look down a scope and then just bang and yay Greg, you did it. You know, just like that simple. Holy [bleep] That's that's all it was. And four like four or five. But it's like it's so it's like that's was the beginning of you know me to now. Wow. Right.

5:38 Damn, bro. So when I met you in when I met you in high school, you were you were equipped to put some [bleep] down. Yeah. I I had been shooting for a long time. Wow, man. Goddamn, dude. [bleep] quick draw Crawford, brother. Godamn, man. I mean, also buying like we me and my brother, we screw around with each other. Yeah. We didn't screw around really with the weapons ever just cuz that was also instilled to us. So he I guess my dad trusted us at sort of an early age. Yes, sir. To not [bleep] around with it. And by and large mostly we didn't. You know what I mean? Like Fair enough. You did say that uh if you're comfortable talking about it, you did say that there was an in Oh yeah, we'll talk about that. Fair enough. Um, what does owning a gun give you emotionally beyond the ability to protect yourself? I look at it as it's it's almost [sighs] it's almost like a sacred trust, if that makes sense. You you take on this enormous responsibility. I mean, and it's it's not even I I don't even mean so much for protection. Maybe this is more about hunting but like in providing for yourself in sh literally like I look at it as the entire universe works on a on like a factor of energy exchange. Okay.

7:03 Everything everything eats everything else essentially. Okay. Like no matter is destroyed. It only changes shape. Wow. So if I'm if I'm harvesting game, I'm part of I'm part of actually affecting the environment in like a real way. I'm contributing to like the health of my ecosystem. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's not to get all granoli on it. Dude, I love this response. Holy [bleep] It's like you are you're doing such a you're doing such a like a fundamental and important thing for the environment and like yeah it it it equates in death but I' I've never looked at it that way. I guess it's uh it's you harvesting for the environment. It's you keeping yourself healthy and helping to keep like the world healthy. Understood. If that makes sense. Okay. Okay. That said, how do you think carrying a gun changes the way someone responds to fear or conflict?

8:15 [sighs] I, you know, it sort of depends who you are, doesn't it? Yeah. Like if you're I think [sighs] I think to to everyone who thinks they're going to carry a gun to like defend themselves, I think you have to you have to be really honest with yourself and be like if I'm truly put into that situation, am I prepared to really hurt someone? Yeah. Like it would be you'd be better off learning how to to fight like it would be you'd be better off learning how to wrestle maybe. Mhm. And and like don't get me wrong, it's useful to have a gun. It's it's fine, but if you're going to do that, you should do like the training involved. Like I remember I can't remember the man's name. And I would I would call him Dudley D, right? But that's that's not fair. [laughter] Fair enough. But his like his like with the pistol course, his whole thing was most cases you have seven seconds. Like if you just have a handgun on you, if someone's going to really run at you to draw and shoot, are you prepared to to kill someone like cuz okay, say you have the gun on you, say someone does attack you, okay, like with ill intent or they, you know, worst case scenario, you're asleep in your house and someone breaks in.

9:36 If you then don't use it, you've just given them a weapon. That's all that's all you did. And you you gave potentially some real psycho a weapon. Yeah. So, I guess I would offer caution on anybody who thinks they're gonna blam blam, you know, I'll sort, you know, pull the trigger first, answer questions later kind of thing. Well, yeah. You are you prepared to kill somebody if need be? [sighs] God, you know, I part of me thinks yes, but it's like I've never I've never had to be in that situation. I didn't serve. I don't know. I I hope I don't have to. I hope you know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Knock on wood. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. You never really know if you You don't know until you're [bleep] there, man. Yeah. Yeah. And it's [bleep] I've had friends that are like veterans and stuff and like some of the stories they tell are real [bleep] ugly and it's like I'm I'm glad ultimately I didn't but it's like [bleep] you know, mercy.

10:47 Yeah. What responsibility does a gun owner have to keep their weapon from harming someone unintentionally? Oh, huge. I mean, like that's that's like the most important thing is is to keep your weapon from harming someone else. And to be honest, I [bleep] this part up. I It was what am I 34 now? I think I was 25 at the time. Okay. Literally Thanksgiving Day. Mhm. We were we Okay. me, my father, my brother, and another our our standard group of hunting companions. Okay. We were at a cousin's house at the time. She lived down in Selkerk, literally almost on the river, like surprisingly close to like the port of Albany, but it was in it's in section B, so you can you can use rifles down there.

11:54 We had been hunting behind our house. Nothing had happened. and I got just forgetful and clumsy and stupid. We were walking back to the trucks. Mhm. Everyone else had already been unloading and I started to unload. Okay. And now this gun admittedly was sort of a cheap savage. It had been a birthday gift when I was not actually not a birthday gift, Christmas gift when I was 16. And it the trigger had always been a little [bleep] weird. We got it replaced. Now I got gloves on and I'm starting to re I'm starting to unload. I go to drive the bolt back. But in in particular for this gun, the safety has to be off. Okay. To unload it. So or safety has to be right off. Yes, I said that right. So I'm going to unload and all of a sudden it goes [bleep] bang. I shoot my father's truck. It goes into Evan's truck. My brother is then hit by shrapnel out of his own vehicle.

13:02 Your brother, it it hit Evan. Yes, it hit Evan to shrapnel. The shrapnel hit Evan right in the back. That was a dark [bleep] day. But my story is not that weird. That actually happened. That happened a bunch like uh what is it? Remington 700s were known to do that. like at cold temperatures. Yeah. They would sometimes just go off. Wow. Like you would just be like you would just like touch it and it would go click. Now granted this I that's not what I had. Yeah. But I mean there's you know tons of horror stories. It could have been so much worse. Yeah. But then obviously he got hit. It turned into an incident. Bethlehem police showed up. The two of the Bethlehem cops sort of got into it. So then the one was pissed off and he called Encon. Wait, what? They were They were like, it was a stupid argument. I I don't even know what the [bleep] it was over. The cops got into The cops got into an argument amongst themselves. It was like two Bethlehem troopers. They showed up and he was like, well, they're like, the one guy's like, "Well, rearrange it. You know, you guys move the vehicles. How was everything arranged at the time?" And he's like, "Hey, relax. I've got this handled. This is my scene." Mhm.

14:17 And then and then they I can't even hear I don't even remember the rest of what they said. But then the one guy sort of [bleep] off and then all of a sudden Encon shows up and he goes, "Well, I didn't [bleep] call him." And he goes, "Fucking, you know, this other [bleep] guy did." So Jesus Christ, man. Flash forward. I had this put me in like a real funk. Yeah. And it didn't help that like like okay in the hilltowns and everybody a lot of people are part of like the rescue squad. So people have scanners in their homes. They knew I don't even really want to say her name, but they knew where our cousin lived. And so when they said, "Hey, there was a shooting incident at such and such address." They're like, "That's where Brian and them all go. Did uh you know, was that you guys?" And it's like, "Yep." And then so I mean, everybody pretty much knew it involved me and my brother in like a day. Jesus. So like like [bleep] And then I was trying to call my mom about it and she wouldn't pick up the phone. It was it was just a whole thing. It was a It was sort of a shitty day. [sighs] Unbelievable.

15:22 Like telling my grandmother, "Hey, I I shot Evan." Was was an ugly moment. Was a real ugly moment. I mean, I know you said when you were younger, like you you and your brother didn't have the best relationship, I assume. Did something like that? Like, how was your relationship prior to that incident? I had been getting better. like the the real nater was like like during high school basic basically when we first met like when he was like a senior and I was like a sophomore uh we were we were at each other's throats all the time just you know just dumb kid [bleep] Yeah. Yeah. Things that just didn't matter, you know, like you're supposed to do the chores or something and then he wouldn't do it and he pawn it off on me or you know it just like stupid [bleep] But anyway, and then he went, you know, he went off to school. Obviously, I stayed home and, you know, finished high school and he didn't he met Kelsey not long after coming back. I think he was in the house maybe another 3, four years. Basically, once he like moved out, we were a lot better.

16:32 We're a lot more copathetic now. Yeah. And Parkers, we just probably don't see each other like every [bleep] day. and we're both north of 30. So, yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. Fair enough. So, how did that incident impact your relationship moving forward? I mean, did did did that like did that make you closer? I mean like what what Yeah, actually amazingly he literally came home and said, "Hey, Greg, it's real like this was [bleep] up, but he like he hugged me and he said, um basically like like hunting is sort of how I guess how we've all colle like all like the men in my you know nuclear family, we've all bonded. So he's like don't ever give up hunting. don't stop hanging out with us basically is what he said. Oh. So like you know like and it's to the point like I don't even I can't even make jokes about it. I tried to like I gave him a t-shirt once with like a bullseye on it and then he looked at it and then just looked at me and I was like I'm an [bleep] We can't like you know what I mean? Like it doesn't like it fell flat immediately. I'm like Jesus Christ.

17:46 We're just I mean I of course I get I mean you know you you make [bleep] like that laughable and it takes the sting away but I guess something like that can never quite well I think it would it would be better now. Like we make jokes now and [bleep] but that was like it it did make us closer. It definitely it's one of the most humbling experiences of my life. I bet. Yeah. Yeah. considering I didn't even like no charge. Like I didn't do anything legally wrong. I did something stupid. But I I didn't get in tram cops. I then I had almost like a whole year like literally passed or almost and then like at the beginning of November I got a pretty threatening letter from Encon like you know we'll uh d you know we need to see you in court at you know da da da you should get representation. Oh wow. if you don't do that, you could face up to a fiveyear suspension of whatever. And it's like there were no charges filed. So then I had to hire an attorney. It got it got sorted out, but then I had to take like a year suspension and [bleep] I still had to pay a fine. It wasn't a I don't think it was a lot. It was just literally someone had I'm sure someone at some point saw, hey, didn't we have like a whole incident here and nobody got in trouble?

19:10 Like uh how do we remedy this? Don't we Aren't we supposed to pump this guy for cash a little bit? And that's basically what it turned into. Jesus. But it it stressed me the [bleep] out, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. It's most basic level, like they're there to sort of help steward the environment. So, if it's like a it's a biologist doing studies in the field, sure. But they get a lot of like if you have a hunting license, it technically gives Encon the right to come onto your property anytime they want. Oh wow. Like in theory, you are supposed to have like every animal you harvest, you're technically like when you have the meat packaged, you're supposed to have the tag you filled out with that number, like the number from the tag on the package of meat. And like there's just a whole, you know, it's rules a rule a lawyer written specifically to treat trip people up. Understood.

20:09 So if they know like if they think you're poaching but they can't prove you're poaching, they can get you on a bunch of other minor [bleep] they can just hit you with as much stuff as possible to get something to stick. [clears throat] And that's and that's a lot of how our legal system works. It's just paper them with as much as we [bleep] can to trip you up to get you on something even if we can't get you on the main thing we know you're doing or something. Yeah, we can get you on something, right? Like they could never get alapone anything, but they can get him on tax evasion, right? Yeah. Can't get him for murdering a guy, but they can get him on [laughter] not like where does all this money come from? Oh god. Yeah. That's that's that's the legal system. Yeah. Yeah. Um kind of springboarding off that. Where would you draw the line between someone's right to own a gun and the public's right to safety? [sighs] Well, let me put it like this. Um, there was it's this is like sort of a I think it was like a life survey 1962 if people wanted to outlaw handguns. 60 like I think it was roughly 65% of people pled were in favor of it.

21:28 In favor of owning handgun? No. Of of uh outlawing handguns. Oh, okay. So 1962, you had at least potentially a majority of the public that probably would have been willing to. I think now you go back, and this was not that long ago, this is like 2016, a similar sort of poll, it was like 21% of people only were in favor of outlawing handguns. Like the big if what the the part that the gun control people don't get is like the more chaotic our world is and this I guess this goes for the the how would you say it the outlaw the police types. Okay. I mean I don't think this is a great big mystery. You cannot be both outlaw the cops and for gun control. That that doesn't work. Yeah. Tell elaborate on that please. Please. If your okay, if your whole message is going to be is going to be stripping back on, you know, police power and that sort of and their enforcement ability, per se, you can't then also [snorts] take firearms then away from John Q citizen.

22:46 You're you you are now interfering directly with their ability to defend themselves like like H what was even a good one like Martin Luther King I forget it was someone was going to do an interview and obviously he wasn't alone he he had a whole cadre of people around him especially by I think it was this happened like 1959 but the guy went over to his actual house and he was like he was actually amazed how many guns there were of course that makes complete sense he's he was at the tip of the civil rights spear for a certain no legitimate, you know, law enforcement organization down in where did he live? Wasn't it outside of in Georgia or in Alabama? They're not going to I think he lived in I believe he lived in at in Georgia. Yeah. Yeah, I believe I think he was originally from Atlanta. Maybe Birmingham at this point, but it doesn't matter. No legitimate law enforcement organization in the state of Alabama is going to protect him. 100% 100%. He He has to protect himself. Mhm. Like it is he looking to cause violence?

23:56 Obviously not. But he can't let people just openly attack his family. Yeah. And it doesn't even necessarily mean he picks up anything, but the people around him will. Like you [laughter] like you you can't you you can't Okay. Okay. And to bring it back, I guess more to this moment, you can't ask normal citizens, "Oh, hey, you know, there'll be no cops, no order, but some real psychopath confronts you." Like, you know, you don't you know, you don't get to have a gun. It's It makes me vaguely uncomfortable. Like, they can't [bleep] work, man. Yeah. Cannot [bleep] work. No, I understand. I understand. So, it's sort of like getting rid of the cops and [bleep] Getting rid of the cops, I assume. Is there like in this in this theory, are you getting rid of the the government totally as like No, I I would mean like Well, I I'm speaking for something I don't believe in, but like Okay, if you were to So, if you get rid of the police, I mean, I guess I mean, what is a government ultimately? But the right to exercise violence or the monopoly on violence. So if you if you tone down the police's ability, aren't you aren't you isn't that actually what you're doing? You're attacking the very bedrock of like the society basically.

25:23 So I mean look, you could [sighs and gasps] is it a problem? We've had so many mass shootings and you know, not just mass shootings, but like let's be honest, school shootings and like that kind of violence. Yeah. Sure. But I don't how so how does how how does getting rid of the police help that per se? It would you know actually I guess I didn't actually I didn't take it that far. But yes, if you were going to really curtail police powers then you are because I'm thinking you are really getting rid of the government too, aren't you? Yeah. Or at least I'm thinking in this theory is this anarchism? I don't even well I don't know what the hell it what maybe yeah like cuz I'm thinking because in anarchism I don't think there is government. I think people govern themselves if I'm if I'm not mistaken.

26:25 I'm trying to it's the absence of any external authority. Okay. Okay. But then that would just [sighs] it would create a vacuum that would just lead to people making their own authority. Yeah, it's sort of you so then we would return to this Hobbsian state of all men against men except it would never be all little people individuals. It'd be groups against other groups. That's just what that would turn into. It's [laughter] you would just fall back to human tribe me orchard a against whoever someplace else is trying to [bleep] with us now. Fair enough. Which is dumb. It's a concept that I've wanted to learn more about just because I'm interested in like political theory and [bleep] like that. Um I I was just curious to know because it's it because like when you said that it just it brought my mind to that and I'm just like I want like could you not have guns in this? Like would that work? You know what I'm saying? Because if people are I mean because it's like to have there be no police and no government. This theory implies that there's a utopia in which everybody lives in harmony.

27:34 And I'm not sure if that's realistic. No. You know what I'm saying? I mean, someone at some point is going to there's a a flip's going to switch in their mind and they're like, "Oh, well, you know what? I want it this way." Well, if that Well, right. You'd have the natural problem of a no chance everyone would agree on all what they want anyway. And there's enough, let's be honest, there's enough bad actors or people who would simply be like, well, if there's no authority, I'm just gonna do what I want to do anyway. Yeah. And I'm going to force myself into situations or on people 100%. And it's like, okay, so we're not going to have cops or government, but we're also not going to have firearms. Like, what the [bleep] are you talking about? Like, no. Fair enough. It's a good That's a good point. It's a good point you bring. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Um, that said, my friend, how do you weigh the role of guns in causing harm against their role in stopping it? Go one more time. What is the role of how do you weigh the role of guns and causing harm against their role in stopping it?

28:45 I mean I I [sighs] if you okay what is most okay most like gun crime or anything let let's let's be honest most gun crime is caused by sort of inner city violence fair enough if you remove that from the picture I mean I think technically the United States is probably the leader or at least of the industrialized the first world obviously in gun fatalities and such. If you removed if you could like ever do something to lessen poverty or people's existential problems Mhm. essentially so you could turn people away from gang violence. We would fall to like somewhere like 55 [clears throat] like we would fall to like near the top to way the hell down the list. So, well, here's something I learned, too. So, like, do guns cause violence? Sure. Yeah.

29:48 But it's it's it's it's both. Like, a gun is ultimately just a tool. Yes. 100%. It's just a tool that can be used for good or bad. Absolutely. Good or bad. Yes, sir. Like, you know, and you want to have the right tools in your life. Look, you should have a fire extinguisher. Hopefully, you never have to use it, but if you do, you hope it's there. You're probably going to use a screwdriver a hell of a lot more than you're going to use a fire extinguisher. There you go. [laughter] But you you but God almighty, when you need it, man, you hope it's there and you hope it works. That's a fact. So, keep it updated, folks. [laughter] Yes, sir. Yes, sir. So, let me ask you this just to get your opinion on it because this is something that I constantly like to talk about, too. Greg the governor, Greg the leader, Greg the leader, with uh no with no hindrance and all the resources possible. How would you remove how would you what would you instill to remove inner city violence? [snorts] Like what do we need to ensure that?

30:59 because there's no way to eradicate it entirely. But how do you bring it down substantially? [sighs and gasps] Here's the thing. It you have to do something that frankly certain people have already sort of done badly, okay? Like in part means in partially decriminalizing drugs. And I don't mean and I I don't mean letting dealers off the hook per se. I mean you can't just drop the hammer on every user in the world. We have to spend a lot more on sort of mental health and the actual care of you know John Q citizen in the country and like especially people in frankly neglected populations, neglected areas. It means, you know, like what is Okay, I know that like but from the African-American community, cops, there isn't necessarily a fantastic relationship, but was the complaint that there was too much policing or always that there wasn't enough? It was like, hey, whenever I needed something, it was never really there. You know what I mean? Like, hey, I call 911 and it takes him an hour to [bleep] get here and I'm not that far away. Like that's maybe that's almost a question I would ask you.

32:21 Dude, you know what? I can honestly say I've never directly had that issue. I've never had to reach out to the police. But what I will what I will say is this. Um I did have based on what I've been able to observe directly, right? I got a cousin. He was he was stabbed like in front of his house and hit by a car and [bleep] like in in broad day this was in water. This is a few years back. Okay. You know what I mean? This was in broad daylight in a residential area not far from a school right down the street from a [bleep] uh fire department. You know the police station's not not that far. Right, bro. So, quick question. You don't have to tell me exactly where you said water. Yeah. How close is he to like do you know where Gus's is? He ain't far from Gus's. Okay. I Okay, that's just so I know. Essentially a stone throw. Oh, stones away. That's sort of what I thought. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Water ain't that big.

33:20 No, it ain't. Yeah. And uh so the cops were contacted after this happened. This [bleep] could have died, right, bro? The dude that did it like he I mean he lived in Troy. I mean [bleep] knew who he was for whatever reason. The man never went to prison. He never got arrest. nothing like that ever happened. And I don't And I couldn't help but think if that would have happened to a white man, would it have been the same? Well, and that isn't is sort of Isn't that my point? Like it's not that like Okay. It's not that every interaction has been great, but it's like when I really need you. Yeah. You're not [bleep] there. Yeah. And my and my cousin uh he doesn't have the best relationship with police. He's been very I'm sure very abrasive with cops and whatnot, especially, you know what I'm saying? So, I I I wonder if they like maybe remembered him from a particular situation and they didn't take it. I don't know. I can only speculate, right?

34:23 But I couldn't help but think like, dude, like if he wasn't black, like, would that have been different? You know what I'm saying? It's just wild [bleep] So, I mean, I'll be real with you. I'm not quick to I'm really not I'm I'm not quick to call the police. Um Right. I I can't say I don't fully have faith in them because I know there are good cops, right? But um I I don't know, man. I mean, there's like there's always been that disconnect with them uh and and in my community, you know what I mean? I just I I it's it's just not the first thing that would come to my mind in in that situation and that's just it's just just a natural thing like you know I even if it's a situation where I should call him I'm not sure that I would or maybe there'd be a hesitation you know what I'm saying like I let me okay in burn about this would have been a year and a half ago now so last the beginning of like last spring there was like a string of robberies going up. Was it Long Road or it might have been off County Route One? But anyway, the people sort of who' been they've been stealing like dirt bikes and [bleep] like that and the one guy figured out who they were and instead of calling the cops, he basically went and shot up their house.

35:52 Yeah. like you know and they had like a whole [bleep] thing which was not brilliant but it at the same time [laughter] like at at the same time like we're far enough away you know like water of elite has a police department. Yeah. Like the the Hilltowns only have the Albony County Sheriff's and a lot of the sheriffs now because of [sighs] was it mayor she end I know we have a new mayor now the last mayor she end or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. she sort of backed off the Alman PD. So then our sheriff Craig Apple started putting a lot more sheriffs directly in the city. So then we had even less cops up on the hill. So, if you catch someone trying to break into your house and technically their station is in Clarksville, but if you're in, you know, if you're like in where my godfather lives, like up in Hunter Land, they could be easily 45 minutes away. That's [bleep] insane. I like could easily be that far away. Wow.

36:55 So, it's like it's not even a case of like doesn't have a relation with the cops. It's like I [clears throat] need this just because I'm figuring you're not [bleep] close anyway and I at least need to be able to to it. It It may at least scare someone off. Mhm. If god forbid. Wow. And so like you know it [sighs and gasps] maybe America may be a little maybe as a whole Americans we're a little too hotheaded sometimes. Yeah. Maybe the I don't know if this is a factor in your cousin saying, but maybe like the code of silence or don't snitch that. But see, the thing about it is like when you're a civilian, that doesn't that that [bleep] is stupid. Yeah, it is. Yeah. If you're just nobody, you know what I'm saying? And it's like I think but I think but but but I think that plays into my but I feel like I I'm a victim of that too. Like I and it's like if I was in a situation where I should call the police, I think I would have to really think to myself about that cuz I'm like why am I not you know automatically like hey yeah but yeah I mean seriously like if you're dead ass like not a gangster the [bleep] the [bleep] yeah and then someone's going to like press you over some dumb [bleep] like you know but yeah not it's it's a yeah he's that type of person and I don't I'm like dude you're a bluecollar worker and you love your family like you're not a gangster, bro. Like what the [bleep] You know what I mean? But I don't know. I We We digress.

38:27 We digress. You know, my next question for you, brother, man. Um, which gun restriction, such as background checks, waiting periods, or limits on certain weapons, challenges your beliefs the most? Ch. Uh, in what way? Like, makes me think, oh, like that's a good thing, or think that they should change it? Or could it be both? Let's let's let's go both. Yeah, please. Um I know because it's pretty hard to get a gun in New York State to get a license. Is it okay to actually Okay. To get a uh pistol andor semiotic rifle is sort of a morgome roll, but it's not it's it's certainly not impossible. It's [sighs] the problem is going to a place where they actually have a class. M the problem is like it's an activity that is obviously legal but is very clearly frowned upon by those in power. And the thing that is the most irritating is background checks for ammunition. Okay.

39:39 Is so [bleep] annoying. like it could, you know, and it like and it's such a rubber stamp bolt like already like the prices of everything have gone up obviously. Okay. So, a box of like 308 ammunition I would have bought like when I was 17 years old, no problem, would have been maybe 25 26 bucks. And even that's okay. It's almost that's really almost too high. It's like a little more than a dollar a cartridge. Okay. Obnoxious, but okay. Now it's would be over 50. And now when I go and buy from technically from anybody I'm supposed to they're supposed to immediately notify whoever the background office like it's it's some office in the New York State Police. Yeah. So, you have to send them obviously your social security number, all this stuff. And if no one's, you know, up checking on their system at the moment, you could sit there forever or something. There could just be some weird sort of hold on it or if they type in the wrong number, they could just And let me be honest with you, I actually gave a guy once and I didn't even intentionally do this, but I I messed up one number in my social security number.

41:06 It's technically I made like a five, a six. Okay. I still went through I still went through fine apparently. It just like wow. It was like ding fine. Another time I had to wait like half an hour over what and and I like and I again there's nothing on my record. I have you know I've had some uh you know I've run a couple of red lights. That's about it. [laughter] Like what what the [bleep] are we doing here? Why? Why am I doing all this extra [bleep] And it's like it it really is just to break it's to break your balls like at every turn. Like, oh well, you know, why do you need however much ammunition? When you're sighting in a gun like a like a rifle, you should theoretically shoot it like a hundred times. Okay. Just to to break it in, to know to dial it in, right, to get it lined up with the scope properly, to find out what what sort of bullet it shoots, great, what weight. You can use different powders, different primers. You you can you can get really into the weeds on it.

42:19 But to just break it in, you need to shoot it a hundred times. There are 20 bullets in a box. That's four boxes. So if you bought four boxes at one time, someone could be like, well, why is he buying four boxes, you know, denied? It's like, well, what the [bleep] Wow. And so a lot of people will just there, look, we're close enough here. You can just go to Vermont or even if you're passing through like New Hampshire, there's effectively no laws, which quote unquote is supposed to be, you know, big obviously big no no, but New York State can't regulate interstate commerce, so you can do as you like. Interesting. There's people that obviously order stuff online and there's like probably big retailers won't, but there's companies down south that don't they don't give a [bleep] Like they're not going to take the fall for you if you get in trouble, but they'll send you whatever you want. [laughter] They're not going to take, you know, there it goes. Yeah. You know, so it's like ah there's a lot like that. And that's not the only one, but that is probably the most ownorous and tedious one of like just pointless, petty [bleep] Okay, let me ask you a question. Why does one realistically need an automatic weapon?

43:38 Cuz a handgun I get, but why does a regular civilian need an automatic weapon? Like, how do you justify that? [sighs] Right. Okay. What is okay? What is the wording in the second amendment? It is you what is it almost verbatim? You must have a well- reggulated militia. Okay. Well, it's a well- reggulated militia essentially. And what is a militia? It's citizen soldiers. Okay. Now, I'm going to I might depart the deep end now, but like in 1776 that meant like a and a brown bass musket. Okay. or some, you know, a a flint lock. In the Civil War, that meant a Springfield similar, but now with a percussion cap in, you know, in the 1920s and stuff, you could you could mail order a Tommy gun. That's how they got them. Mail order them. You could mail order. Mail order. Wow.

44:37 Mail order. That's I mean, that's how they got them all. Yeah. Back then. Wow. I mean, like Bonnie and Well, I don't know. [bleep] John Dallinger just mail ordering a Tommy Tommy gun. You would just mail order a Tommy gun with like a 50 round drum for it. You know what I mean? Like [snorts] that's [bleep] wild. And now granted that maybe that got a little chaotic. Yeah, that got a little chaotic. The cops couldn't keep up with these guys. [laughter] You know, you know when Bonnie and Clyde have like, you know, they have like a BAR, so it's like a light machine gun. Like that's a Yeah. Yeah. Like [laughter] what the [bleep] is this? And now we're talking [snorts] the 20s here, dudes that, you know, they may be encountering people that don't even have cars. They may be on horses like with some lever action and they go, they're like, "Holy fuck." So, like I guess I the the proargument would be aren't I sort of fulfilling my duty of potentially having arms to a either help protect protect the country or you could have some real militia men sort of give you an answer of I'm here just in case the government overreaches its responsibility. Mhm.

45:54 which [sighs and gasps] at the at the rate of our technological change like I I don't I don't really care one way or another about assault rifles particularly. Uhhuh. But like the main the main view of the main weapon of death now is like drones is somebody building a drone in their basement making a little bomb out of it and you know just flying it wherever they want into stuff. Ted Kazinski. Ted 2.0. Ted Kazinski 2.0 isn't going to like release chemical weapons or a bomb on a train. He's going to build drones and then fly them into places. That like that's the future you're into. That's wild. So, I mean, yeah, some guy having an AK-47 is, I guess, could be dangerous, but I think most most of the types who really have them are just sort of the libertarian perspective, sort of oldtimey dudes [laughter] who who really aren't much of a bother to anybody.

46:59 So, I have like I I don't feel any great urge to own one personally. Yeah. But I have no I have no ill will towards anybody who does. Okay. By and large. So I don't I don't see it as a huge problem. I guess it's the greater question would be like and this is I guess an argument for background checks. How do you keep weapons out of the hands of people that truly shouldn't have them? And okay, we already have a bunch of laws, but then like the who was the guy who shot up the grocery store in Buffalo? Oh, I forget his I don't even know. Forget his name. You You know, you remember it. That guy had a criminal record, but he bought a gun and technically he bought it legally. It didn't show up on his record. So, we have laws early to protect this. Well, how about you just enforce the ones we have for like a a start? And like again, you've proven you, the government, have shown yourself to frankly be at times malicious, uh, incompetent to the point where like most people don't want to like don't trust you enough to even go like I mean the like what is what else is the point of a pistol? The pistol pistols are meant to shoot people.

48:25 Type [bleep] You know, you could do anything anything else you want with rifles or shotguns. Pistols are meant to kill people. Pretty much straight up or down. If they're not even willing to go on that, I I don't even know where they have a leg to stand on. And I know like that would be highly offensive to certain people if they heard that, but like and I think they gota they gotta [bleep] do better. Yeah. If you do better, if it function better, you could make more of an argument for actually limiting things. But as it stands today in the year of our Lord 2026, I'm not holding my breath. Fair enough. I mean, like when you think about gun ownership and [bleep] like that, because a lot of the people that can get it that may have mental health issues or whatnot, like if the shit's not on record, you know what I mean? How do you know? Well, okay, a perfect example is is there's a guy actually a friend who's part of our hunting group. his cousin has well doumented mental health problems like has been in and out of institutions like all his life. I would say at at a minimum he's like schizophrenic.

49:41 Wow. At a minimum at a at a minimum he's got to have some sort of like at least lowgrade like schizophrenia going on, dude. Holy [bleep] Okay. I know for a fact he's got guns. It's like how how does that happen? You know, like he's been I mean, he's never he's never threatened anybody, but he's been in and out of [bleep] He's had weird he's had weird [bleep] episodes before and like he's got guns. It's like as it currently stands, okay, we want more laws. You can't make the ones you have now function, bro. What? Like, what do you want me to do? How about how about we just get the basic [bleep] to work first and then you can come back to me later and we could talk about it. That's [bleep] insane. It is. It's insane. And the thing about it is like I'm like I'm an honest person. Like I I've had I've dealt with mental health issues in the past. I've had emotional instability and [bleep] I'm like I don't think I should ever own a gun. And I'm fair enough and I'm all right with that. You know, I just don't you know what I'm saying? So I feel like there needs to be a level of accountability and having that dialogue with yourself, you know?

50:57 Oh yeah. I So but you know and and and the thing about it is like despite that I probably I don't see why I wouldn't be able to go through and get one because there's nothing on record. You know what I'm saying? But it's me being honest with myself like I don't think I should. But to legitimately have these mental health issues on your record and for that and for you to have multiple weapons is kind of crazy. Well, I mean the gentleman in question doesn't like he you know what I mean? Like he doesn't he doesn't think clearly like you know it's like it's like a Oh god. Sorry. You're good. You're good. Like a lot of people that have those moments like he'll go through times where he's fine. like he's working his job, doing his thing, and then you'll have an episode, you get a a feeling, well, I'm not gonna take my pills today or whatever. You know what I mean? And I'll just resist it. And then he spirals and he spirals into some episode. Then he's calling my friend in question, you know, people are listening to me. I'm pretty sure people are listening through my, you know, through the radio in my car, through this and through that. It's like, you know, and then it's like, okay, I got to take so and so off to the off to the place again because I don't, you know, and to I guess and people probably won't know this, but to tie back to our conversation about homelessness, I think part of the problem is we have to be a little more honest about mental health in this country. Yeah. Yeah.

52:28 Like there's more like there's a lot more therapy speak. There's a lot more like basic awareness, but we need to be honest about people that have like deep-seated huge issues. Yeah. Like, and I don't I don't I don't even necessarily think like the the kids who shot up Coline, I'm not sure they were crazy. Like, they were just kind of sad losers who, you know, if if you could have just told them, "Hey, man, don't do what you're doing. Give it two years. you'll be out of high school. None of this shit's going to matter anymore. But like the but obviously other people like the the I always remember he was an Asian guy shot at Virginia Tech. I forget his name, but but he had like a whole or the guy who shot the uh the senator in Arizona. Like he was clearly having a [bleep] episode. Like he was spiraling spiraling spiraling down. if people had more of an option to be like, "Hey, Timmy's [bleep] losing it." And like we could be a little more open about that and hopefully some like we could grab a guy at least like go, "Hey, let's get him to a room with padded walls so we could like I mean, we could at least give it a couple of days." It's hard for I got to be honest with you. It's fair. It's It's hard for me to say that the guys that did the Coline deed weren't crazy. Like, well, you know what I mean? Whether they whether they It's like to to the level of conviction it takes to [sighs] decide to do this and to plan it out and to actually go through with it. Like, there's definitely a disconnection with reality.

54:18 Well, okay. No, but I want you to but I want you to just tell me how you feel about that. Okay. Like, okay, this is what I would say is sort of the difference. Okay. And that like there's a difference between you can be so filled with hate that you do something that at its outset or whatever or such a mindset that is so seemingly insane. But I don't think you're psychotic like as evil like how do I say this? as now I'm going to make a giant extrapolation, but like as crazy or as as seemingly crazy as Adolf Hitler is, is he really crazy or is he just filled with conviction, you know, or like any of like the communist like like actually a lot of the things that go into being a basic revolutionary is just being filled with conviction, standing on your principles sort of no matter what. Like are they I guess it's it's a kind of crazy but it's not fully psychotic. So psych Yes. So psychotic means experiencing a loss of contact with reality such as hearing or seeing things that others don't or strongly believing things that aren't true. It doesn't automatically mean someone is violent or dangerous.

55:37 I Okay, fair enough. But I mean like the two Coline kids Yeah. are sort of just they're like sad, you know, they're sad dorks. Like I didn't have a lot of friends, you know, or I felt alone by, you know, quote unquote my community. But like, but the one kid, Dylan Clayel, the guy with like the longer blonde hair, like the long nose, he was really gitty and excited when he was doing that [bleep] Well, right, because now you're having this well, you're having your moment of uh how do I say this? Apotheiois. if you will. You're having, oh yeah, I'm living out my my truest moment and it's like [bleep] Christ like like I'm sure there were no Okay, there were people who were, you know, like I'm sure there were people that when they went to like line up and shoot the Romanoffs or whatever, I'm sure some of them were probably giddy and excited going to, you stamp out the tyrants forever. And it's like, [sighs] is that born out of a break from reality?

56:53 Like even even the kid even now I actually forgot his name. The one of the shooters there like he's going after people he views as tormenting and ruining his life, you know, quote unquote. I mean, if you're the bearer Jew from uh Eng Glorious Bastards. Yeah. His that guy loved to kill Nazis and and and [bleep] I mean, is that being psychotic? I mean, these people are these people are d they're destroying they're destroying your people, bro. You know, they don't give a [bleep] You're like you're dude, you're animals to them. You're not you're probably less than an animal, right? So it's like I mean if you were and I'm not this is not I'm obviously not encouraging this or condoning it. Yeah. But you I I don't know what they went through in their lives but going through whatever years of perceived torment and whatever they felt like I wish they had reached out for help or at least got someone hopefully like an older frankly like an older sort of man to sort of talk to them. Yeah.

58:02 And be to like give them some perspective on it. But if if you if you feel your entire life you've been tormented by these people and this is your great moment, you probably are giddy and excited. Yeah. Yeah. And like that's, you know, it's [bleep] Yeah. Yeah. But it's still not the same as, oh, I think people are listening to me. They're telling me to go shoot the, you know, they're telling me to go shoot Kathy Hogal at [bleep] when she gives her state of the state address. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I get what you're saying. Like there is a difference between now I can't even think of his name. Robert Dairo's character a taxi driver. What? I forget his name too. Yeah, I I get what you're saying. Yes, I get what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Like that guy's having a psychotic break. That guy like [laughter] he's having a full on thing. That's something I'd like to I'd like to explore deeper, man. That's actually a really good point you bring up. While that's something that's something that's worth peeling into. When I look back through this [bleep] I'm definitely going to dig into that deeper. That might set us up for a good part two. You know what I'm saying?

59:08 I'm down for anything, man. Um, let me ask you, what would make you recognize that you needed to step away from your own guns during an emotional crisis? Well, I would like to think I have the wisdom of however many years I've lived that I'm not just going to throw it all the way chance moment of [laughter] like and I believe you. You know what I mean? Like I've been through a lot of [bleep] I've seen a lot of [bleep] up things. Am I going to really like even look like my girl now I I open the door and she's you know I don't know we're living together and she's getting [bleep] by some guy. Am I going to be like you die now [bleep] or like it's not even like trust me I would hate her forever but am I going to throw my life away over someone that's clearly a piece of [bleep] It's like no man.

1:00:06 Yeah. You know, like I just the other literally yesterday, actually, I was coming I was coming back from uh our depot and literally the gas station out here, some older like Spanish guy, you know, like you're at the light out there. Mhm. And the one like so gas station, whatever, the shittier one, not the mobile. Like there's you can you [laughter] can pull around a western. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's we're in two lines of traffic. We're all We're all parked. This guy just starts edging out in front of like all of us to just take a left and obviously to go down Western. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, bro, and then he starts like, well, could you back the [bleep] up, [bleep] And it's like, man, first off, you're not even at the light. We're all We're all waiting to go. The audacity. The audacity. [laughter] Oh, bro. And you're you're cutting not just in front of me, but I'm in the left lane. So he's cutting in front of another car then in front of me then actually turning on to western like for some people like and that guy that guy [bleep] talked me or whatever. I think I just told him to [bleep] off. But like for some people I think you have to know yourself. Like for some people that would be enough to cause like a [bleep] a road rage incident.

1:01:27 Yeah. Absolutely. And just mercifully I just don't think I burn that hot. Yeah, like I'm I'm much better at letting [bleep] go, but again, like it's it's personal responsibility. You have to know who you are. Yeah. Like I'm just not going to like that pissed me off, but I'm not going to like it's a shitty it's a shitty 20 seconds. Mhm. Am I going to throw away my life over some dumb [bleep] Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I would like to think I'm I'm better than that. No. or at least smart enough to not do that. Yeah. No, I can respect that, right? But again, it's it's self-awareness. Self-awareness. Accountability. It's emotional intelligence. Yeah. Plays a plays a strong role in like you would have to know I'm too angry to be, you know, you know, like I'm h you know, I'm having insane thoughts. I maybe should just leave the room at that point. Yeah. If like you can't argue, you know, if [snorts] you can't have a discussion with anybody anymore and you're past the point of just screaming at them, maybe you should just leave.

1:02:37 I mean, you just you got to it's just like you got to just put your pride aside and just be like, yo, like this is like I am not in control of this, right? I'm not in control of the situation. And not even like not even going for a weapon. like am I going to am I going to attack somebody like which is a thing that come like okay you get your pistol permit you have to part of the process is like the literally the final step is you go before a judge I technically think it's it's in the county in which you live so it was Alb County so it's an alb county judge uh my I had a woman she was originally from or original justice from See, part of the thing they tell you is like you got it. It's not a right technically for you to have it. If you have any sort of incident, that all can be called into review. If you, you know, you have a domestic dispute, you go and you catch your woman cheating or whatever and you beat the [bleep] out of her, they can take your guns away. Like, and that's that's probably fair.

1:03:47 If you're if you're [laughter] gonna just if you're gonna, you know, I go home and, you know, I go home and I punch, maybe I shouldn't have, you know, a [bleep] a snub-nose 38. You know what I mean? Yeah. I may not have the emotional intelligence to handle myself. No, that's a fact. That's a fact. You know, unfortunately, everybody doesn't have the ability to not lie to themselves [snorts] or well, you know, raised in a situation where you're like, let's be honest, you have dependability at home and you have people that also call you out on your [bleep] At least people that help keep you honest. That that helps. I'll be honest, having people that are crazier than me tell me I'm hugging, that really made me look at some situations a lot differently. [laughter] Like I like I know you're out of your [bleep] mind. I'm like this [bleep] saying, [laughter] you know what I'm saying? Maybe I'll [bleep] it up.

1:04:45 You know what I mean? So So yeah, I mean, you know, you get [bleep] like that and it's like, you know, no, I'm better off without that. You know what I mean? I'm chilling, bro. I don't I just don't I just don't need it. And I'm cool with that. Like I know I have anger issues, you know. No, fair enough. And it's something that I'm constantly working on. I'm working on bettering my intrapersonal and interpersonal skills. And uh just the the true thing is I mean you can bring something from an eight down to a four. But the point it's still there. Oh, it's still there. Right. So there's just I've just made peace with the fact that I should never own one and I'm okay with that, you know. No, that's fair. And also like as I said earlier, owning one obviously is a responsibility, but are you actually prepared to hurt somebody? I don't I don't I don't get the sense that BradQuan Copelan is really prepared to hurt somebody. Fair enough. Like you you like whatever else you are, Brad. You don't strike me as a dude who's like, I'm looking to [bleep] Yes. [sighs] Yes. I would much rather not. Yeah. I would much rather not. Yes. Yes.

1:05:51 100%. You know what I mean? It's definitely it's like I it's definitely not something I want to do. You know what I mean? I can't I can't it's it's it's like just my own insecurities may boil up to the point where the kind of like pops out of the top and like you can you can have thoughts but only actions speak the truth, right? You know what I mean? Do I think I would? No. But do I want to take that chance? No. It's not worth it. No, you know what I'm saying? Cuz you I mean people will people out here will really will really test you. Oh yeah, unfortunately. You know what I'm saying? Well, cuz they're, you know, and look, you never know what's going on with someone's life. You're you know, you're walking around, you're having a perfectly fine day. You're you're at a one. You encounter some guy who's at an 8.5 for whatever [bleep] reason for you. You're a long way from being mad. And it like you don't really even have to do [bleep] to get him to pop off to 10. 8 to 5 to 10 is not much to get him to and for him, you know, who the [bleep] knows, right? Like that guy mouthing off to me yesterday out of the car, you know, like it's so I was like whatever. That pissed me off. That put me at like a five. that could have put somebody else like people I know perfectly well who would have said wild [bleep] to him might have thrown something out of their car at him or whatever and it's like we don't we don't need to act that way.

1:07:23 What would a fair process look like for temporarily removing someone's guns when there's credible evidence that they might harm themselves or others? I mean, take uh I don't want to say his name certain uh we we'll call him Billy. Let's take Billy in question cuz having you know he has a known history of psychotic episodes. He has yet another one. I think that would actually be totally fair to be like, let's uh, you know, let's let's relieve Billy of his assets at least. Like, not even the problem is how do you it's [sighs] like it's it's it's literally the second one. It's one of, you know, it's one of those fundamental ones. It's like, you know, it's like, you know, pleading the fifth, you know, that people have to get a search, you know, they have to get a search warrant to look at you. Like it's ahead of those two.

1:08:27 Like it's a like so they cons like they considered it really [bleep] like really fundamental, really important. Mhm. So, like there definitely is a there's definitely I think a there's a reasonable assumption that you might commit harm on yourself or others or think it could be taken away. But what that system looks like [sighs] I mean I guess if if we're having like if we have to continuously do this with Billy you know, billion in quotes, I would actually be fine after the third or fourth time. Let's just let's take these away from, [laughter] you know, let's let's take let's remove this out of the equation. I'm not sure I trust you fully. Yeah. And it may not even be like that you fully have to take them. Maybe you call, you know, maybe you call someone who's essentially his guardian or in this case my friend who's his cousin or actually is his dad actually might be still alive but his dad's pretty old. So let's say my cousin in particular or his cousin in particular has to go take said weapons and keep them away from Billy. Probably not a bad idea. At least like give it a month. give it a little bit to like and then maybe we could bring up the fact that maybe long-term Billy shouldn't have these and then maybe that means we sell them simply to a gun store he gets compensated back that would actually be fair. Yeah.

1:10:06 Like cuz like is it a is it you know is it an enshrined right? Sure. Does that mean everyone is capable of executing it and carrying it off? No. you know, where is every should people probably get retested, you know, for their driving say after the age of 75? Probably. Yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like there's there's a point at which like we should at least be willing to admit that uh obviously age in that case is a factor or your mental condition is a factor in the other. Mhm. Let me ask you because I was having a conversation with our friend John last night and he seems to believe that everyone should own a gun and I vehematly disagree with that. [sighs and gasps] I Okay, maybe I I I wouldn't say as far maybe everyone shouldn't own a gun, but it wouldn't be a bad idea if everyone at least shot a gun once. Okay. To to know how to use it. Well, not even to know how to use it. just to like just to understand what understand what the [bleep] it is like ultimately like it is just a tool but also to understand like to to to like see it in action get some like respect for it maybe like it wouldn't be bad to have like a basic wherewithal with it okay I'm not you know I'm not saying we should have compunctual military service but it wouldn't be a bad idea Like like it's like they've you know before they were raping people like if you were a cubs if you were like a boy scout Yeah.

1:11:47 shooting was part of the regiment of being a cub scout or not cub scout boy scout whatever they were the same thing. But that's not a bad idea. Having like having at least the ability where you go try it and like just see what guns are. Fair enough. get a basic idea, move on, you know, take them take them with the seriousness they deserve and like so you know. Yeah. You know what I mean? No, I understand if that makes sense. No, it does. Cuz when he was saying that, I'm like, I don't know that everybody should own a gun because essentially when you have a gun, depending on the room you're in, you're essentially God. You can play the role of God in that room if you're the only person armed. Well, okay. You know what I'm saying? But again, like, okay, you think you think you're God. Are you prepared to really act on it? I just what I'm saying. But and could you [bleep] up and hurt someone even if you didn't need to? What I'm saying is like, I don't think everybody is emotionally stable enough to be able to be to to be able to not act on that. And there's so many people who who are who are weak in that sense, right?

1:13:01 And you know what I mean? you listen if you and and and if you feel that sense of power, you know what I mean? That'll that might make you that might make you cause a mistake that in the moment you you think is you think is the right thing to do. You know what I'm saying? That [bleep] is that [bleep] is like a drug. I'd imagine I I'd imagine for a weak individual with somebody with like severe, you know what I mean, anger issues and somebody who like really with somebody with like a with like a profound inferiority complex and [bleep] If you get to a point where you have that and you are in complete control, dude, that's like that's that's like cocaine meets meth, bro. I mean that I just you know what I mean? Like [bleep] Yeah. It's like in that moment you feel unstoppable. I Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like seriously, like does everybody truly have the capacity to not act on that impulse? You know what I'm saying? Well, part isn't someone who like has an inferiority complex, aren't they at heart sort of a coward? Cuz they like part of it is you know you like on some on some deep level you you're doing this because you feel you don't measure up to some sort of standard 100%.

1:14:19 Right. So, does that is that person like, okay, if what you were saying is true, wouldn't we have a lot more wouldn't we actually have a much higher level of violence than we do? Like, if that makes sense. And then like like guns are harder to get in New York State. They're not impossible. And if you're willing to buy off the black market, I mean, you know, but it's like, you know what I mean? Like it's not it's not that hard to get away. And like like and what you just said for a gun, it's also technically true for a knife. Mhm. Like if you you know and like you can just as easily, you know, I got a switchblade or a straight ranger. You could just as easily hurt yourself with that. Yeah. You I mean granted, not as spectacularly, of course, but you can still hurt yourself with it. Yeah. and or hurt someone else. Fair enough. I see.

1:15:23 Let me ask you this because you got into uh you you touched upon um uh distrust for government earlier and I'm curious based on your knowledge on the government's history of doing [bleep] and just the and just the current [bleep] What role does distrust of the government play in how you think about gun ownership and gun control? Well, I mean like that was sort of my leading point. Like if there is no greater obviously the greater case for gun control, okay, is to have a functional far less far less corrupt reasonable government. Like what's the this is sort of dumb, but like the latest South Park episode. South Park isn't called South Park anymore. It's called South America. You need to tap into that. Yeah. Like and that's a play off the whole Gulf of America thing, right? Well, of course. Yeah. Yeah. But on some level, doesn't that feel like that's what's happening to the country as a whole?

1:16:29 Like we're sort of sliding into this banana republic state. Do [clears throat] you think in that reality people Okay. Like actually, you know what? This is just had a really good thought. Yeah. Yeah. In Mexico it is technically far more illegal to have firearms. Like it's you technically you have to have a license from the government. You have to go directly to me Mexico City to actually obviously buy it. But similar to obviously how obviously drugs travel up through Mexico and are produced there and so on, guns flow out of the United States and into Mexico. So if you were to go into Mexico, everyone's armed. Everyone's armed like all the time. And Mexico has had a long history of essentially being under dictatorships and oligarchies and one party states. And guess what? They all had guns illegal. And guess what? Everybody's [bleep] armed anyway. So that didn't mean all that much.

1:17:39 Like [sighs and gasps] it's actually people. There's actually another guy I'm going to quote here. Yeah. Like Anton Scalia. He was Supreme Court justice fullon like I wouldn't say ultra-conservative but you like the beginning of sort of like he was Ronald Reagan's pick to the Supreme Court. Okay. He had a really good line that always made me think. He goes like every it's not how do I say this? It's not the Constitution that makes you free. It is the balance. It's the balance of powers and the basic and the structuring of your government that actually creates real freedom. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. The fact that they're supposed to be pinned against each other is what makes you free. It's not, you know, every banana republic in the world has a has a constitution and a bill of rights. They they all do. You know, the French, even the French Revolution, literally right before it went off truly off the rails, they wrote apparently an awesome Bill of Rights and one that like guaranted people employment and payment and all this really like advanced stuff basically for the 18th century.

1:18:55 Yeah. And then two, and then like the terror started like a week later, so it it didn't matter. Yes, sir. So [sighs] if you wanted gun control, you have to have a better functioning government. You need one that people can trust or at the very least that knows isn't really going to [bleep] them. And if you actually had a government, you you don't really need the gun control. There wouldn't actually be that much violence. Like would there occasionally be dudes popping off or maybe you know again someone walks in or even okay let's reverse it wife finds out husband is cheating maybe she shoots him you know which that can happen yeah that [bleep] definitely happens that [bleep] can definitely happen I don't know how endemic that is that endemic enough that okay that uh Felicia had a bad day Well, now Greg can't have an over andunder shotgun. You know what I mean?

1:20:00 Like, I haven't done anything. I'm not crazy. I live my life. The vast majority of people were just gun owners living our lives and most of them are, you know, they they probably own their gun and probably don't even like look at it much. It sits in a in the b the top of a closet or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as uh we we spoke we spoke a good amount about uh we obviously just touched on the distrust of government. We spoke about that earlier. You also touched on mass shootings and school shootings and like the violence in this country and whatnot. And I want to use that to ask you this question because there's there are a lot of conspiracy theories that are floating around out there. And uh one thing I want to ask you is what do you make of conspiracy theories claiming that mass shootings are orchestrated to build support for gun control?

1:21:02 Um if that were the case then it has failed spectacularly. [laughter and clears throat] No, it just it like think about it all like even after like obviously Sandy Hook caused a huge outrage. They just you again because some guy went [bleep] crazy or you know which are sad incidents like you not being able to do your business has directly impacted again in 1962 when America was in at least I don't know if or certainly we were in better shape but clearly mentally the country was in far better shape. Not perfect. Obviously, there were a lot of problems, but they were far more willing to be like, "Hey, yeah, we could we could we as a society, do we need handguns?" They were there was clearly they could have been a movement to get rid of them. Okay?

1:22:04 And as much violence as there's been, does anyone trust the idea that if you gave them up that it wouldn't be somehow turned against you? Especially in a world where like and I don't want to get real, you know, tinfoil hat. Well, no, go ahead, bro. No, but like talk your [bleep] Talk your [bleep] Like if pe like if Elon Musk has a dream of we're going to build robots that build themselves and we're going to automate everything. So [clears throat] then you you then also have to give up your guns too. M like I'm supposed to, you know, if they're going to build some [bleep] what is it data center and then they're going to like use weird cameras and like patrol the neighborhood and oh wait there's you know point the cameras into like neighbor like all the the backyards behind the houses so they're essentially spying on everybody in that environment. [clears throat] You think people should disarm themselves?

1:23:04 Like [bleep] off, man. Like you be be realistic. Very nice. Yeah. In a in a better country, you could make an argument for it. In the state we are in now, no. And do I think Look, I I just I don't think, how do I say this? I don't think they're fake. Like, Alex Jones could say wherever he wanted. That guy went in there and shot those kids. And it definitely gets used as like a political tool at times. Absolutely. I want to ask because there was a point where mass shooting I I mean like there's always there have been like doc there have been documented shootings and whatnot in like the 50s and [bleep] like that and right but then like it it almost creates like a spree that almost Yes. And then obviously [bleep] got like the Coline thing really changed really. It really it did it change like it changed it.

1:24:04 But there was a point where this [bleep] was rare like when you hear about it it's like oh my god now we're so desensitized to it. Well part okay and part of it and and that's true but I would also say like certain crimes fit certain moments if that makes sense like with certain technologies affect our societies and cause certain behaviors to come out in people. Right. Okay. if this I'm now gonna this is even really my theory but it's something I've heard and it always sort of made sense to me like when television first became really big and popular that also coincided with people realizing like that serial killers are a real thing and it seemed like there was a spike in that sort of crime. Okay. So does it so does television cause a sort of psychosis in people? But like television like the way the television works causes like a certain type of schizophrenia in people the way I mean well when you say that are you saying like the constant propagation of like negative media and [bleep] like that? Like is that what you're pouring into?

1:25:12 I don't even how do I say this? It takes someone like it numbs you in just a right sort of way and it opens doors in your mind and like sort of if you took like for certain people if they took if they even took like a strong edible maybe it opens a door that's pretty hard to then close and it makes and it gives you sort of a psychotic episode or whatever. Yeah. That television doesn't cause something similar for certain people. Like obviously you can use a gun, but you could get in a car and drive into a crowd, but you're just having a moment of scrolling, you know, numbing yourself constantly and then something in you snaps and then it's like, and that obviously doesn't explain all of that. Well, correct me if I'm correct me because this could be an oversimplification of what you said, but are you essentially getting at the advancement of technology is what's birthing all of these free shootings? Like is is there a correlation? I think I think there might be some sort of correlation. Like like holy [bleep] Like how do I like Okay, this is talk your [bleep] Greg.

1:26:23 Okay, talk my [bleep] We're talking your [bleep] All right, this is a little off base, but not much. Like industrialization causes [sighs] like when okay like when people when industrializ when industrialization sweeps over a country and one that is an intentional decision by people at the top of society essentially they go and for obvious reasons at say okay say this is like anywhere around the world 19th century you have scary countries like England and suddenly are very powerful, very technologically advanced. So you decide you must create, you must uh how do I say this? you must industrialize simply because like take a country like Russia, you have to industrialize just so you aren't conquered by your neighbors, which is like a a a genuine fear of them and not I would say not unreasonable.

1:27:26 But in doing so, in moving to industrialize, you take some essentially quasi medieval society and you break all of its social functions. This has this causes an effect and it causes a very specific type of lashing out like of and it you could see this across Europe. It led to a lot of particular like in in this case and this might be more Russia but like political assassinations but almost like arson sort of became like how do I say this? Arson became the crime of choice like it was like bombings that obviously led to big fires and that's how they killed a whole shitload of officials. Obviously sort of it some of it became copycat type things but it caused a very certain kind of crime if that makes sense like uh obviously we in the United States we get cars you know the automobile gets invented then people start modifying them at first you have you know rickety Model T's and you know Duesenberg well okay Doozenberg is a rich man's car but eventually people figure out hey there's more. You know, these engine bays aren't actually all that full with the engine.

1:28:49 I can put a much bigger engine in this car. And now I can outrun the cops. Mhm. And then this coincides with the Dust Bowl, the depression. So all of a sudden it creates a spree of bank robberies all across the country. Bonnie Clyde, Dillinger, Babyface Nelson. Yeah. And so all of a sudden you have people all over the country just, you know, they're pissed off at banks. Let's be honest, they're if you're choosing like, I'm going to live a life of crime. You're kind of a social reject on some level. You're probably a [bleep] Things have things haven't gone well for you. [laughter] You've made certain decisions that aren't great. And and so now you have, you know, in the case of like uh you know, I what's his name? Clyde Barrow. you've saw off the stock off a bar and you're and you shoot up half a town in like the middle of central Texas and you're robbing some bank, but you're robbing you're robbing people that you think have helped ruin your life, right?

1:29:55 And so we, this is sort of more complicated, but now you're watching television, you've numbed yourself, you are numbing yourself, maybe you have a psychotic event, your mother's not very nice to you, you feel disconnected, you feel you have no purpose. And and in general, maybe you're not you don't have a lot of charm or charisma. You're not great with the ladies. You know, you fantasize. you you have no male influence in your life and you you f start fantasizing about hurting people or like dominating the you know the female like there's a there's like a Latin word for it but it it doesn't matter. So then and that's like that's like the the recipe of how you become like a real serial killer. Interesting. And so then you just start and then you you know you start hurting people. Maybe you start with your mother and then you work out like that's literally like Ed Gene's story and that's how you then you become like the co-ed killer. Interesting.

1:30:57 And you kill a bunch of girls and in his case he was like he just realized he wasn't going to get caught so he turned himself in. Like so he had some sort of conscious moment of like oh yeah I don't know enough about the co killer. Wow. like um [clears throat] and now we move to like the spree killing of today. Yeah. You know, you're what was the one the the latest? It's not like the latest one. It was the felt like the last sort of big one. The one that he shot at the high school in Florida. I don't I don't even There been There's so many so many. You know what I mean? I I know which. It was Orlando. Was it was it in Orlando? I think it was. And it was Wait. Or was that a nightclub? No, that you're right. The one was a nightclub. Yeah, but there was a kid. What I remember is he Okay. And this actually points back to government. The kid goes in. He had been he had gone to the high school, like the middle school and started the high school. He had gotten kicked out. I think he went to another high school, maybe. I think I sort of think he failed out of that one. I'm not sure if he even got a high school diploma. Then he goes back and shoots up the more middle school, high school, the one he had been to when he was younger.

1:32:16 Now you feel rejected. You go online. You tongue to people with the, you know, the hashtag Uncle Adolf or whatever. You talk to some real [bleep] Yeah. You get infected with shitty ideas. You follow, you know, you learn everything about the Coline shooter. You get obsessed with this thing. You think now I'll, you know, I'll make my purpose what it is. And you go and you shoot a bunch of And at that point, like he'd been out of school for a year. I think he'd been out of school for three or four years. Like all the kids that [bleep] with him weren't even there anymore. Yeah. So now you're just shooting like random [bleep] you you don't know. And I'd also like to add the cops show up and they don't you know they they hang around outside. They don't. Okay, this is like sort of a shitty thing to say, but like the same thing happened in Texas actually in the town like Matthew McConnA was from where the the border agent, I don't know if you remember this, he went in and he actually stopped the school shooter. But the local sheriff people like there's shooting going on and they like they they they freeze up. They won't go inside. You know, it's one thing to be a cop and pulling people over, but like, hey, man, there's little kids in danger in there. Like, this is like, you know, like, I get that your your normal cop job is maybe two steps above being normal functionary at a bureaucrat, but like you have a badge and a gun. You have a moral responsibility to go in there and stop this [bleep] I would think as quickly as possible.

1:33:54 And yeah, that means putting your life on the line. It means confronting who the [bleep] knows what, you know, whatever deranged son of a [bleep] is in there. But you have a responsibility to to stop it. And now I've had a tangent. But still, like certain conditions in society cause certain kinds of crime. Okay, if that makes sense. I think I I I hope I've illustrated that a little better. I think you did. I think you did. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's really that's really fascinating, actually. Jesus. I mean, not to not to justify what not justifying what anyone's doing. No, but what I'm saying is not to justify Ted Kazinski's huny, but I get a little more like it it it's really making sense as to how he felt technology was going to harm humanity. [gasps] You know what I mean? I mean, yeah. Yes. But also, like, so your answer to that, well, yeah. [bleep] you, Ted. Again, not to not to justify it because he went about that the wrong way, but it's like when you make that point, it's like I get what he was, right? Like, I get what he was trying to like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I get where he was coming from. You know what I mean?

1:35:10 Right. You want like you understand, but he also just could have he could have written books about it and just You could just Yeah. Right. It just been a hermit who lived in his cabin in Montana. You know what I mean? You didn't have to You didn't have to do that. Oh, Ted. He didn't have to do that, Ted. No. Somebody would have just been like, "Yo, Ted, you're alone, bro. You got to chill out, man." It's his It is his brother who turned him in. Yeah, it was his brother that turned him in. Yeah. Brother turned him in because of his wife. You know what I mean? His wife never liked Ted. And uh once that manifesto came out, it was just like, okay, like this. Well, he also knew it cuz he read it and he said, "Man, like it reads like my brother wrote this." But but the thing about it is like had it not been for her, right? And then of course his wife is yapping in his ear like this is your brother Ted cuz he cuz he's like it could be a one in 10,000 chance that is Ted and she's like well that's not nothing. That's not nothing.

1:36:06 You know what I mean? There's there's also an argument where like like the brother did the morally right thing, but he also committed a sort of betrayal in doing that. I mean, like this is okay. No, I I hear me out for a second. This is a sort of a weird quasi argument for firearms. Maybe you don't turn Ted over to the cops, but you do some investigating yourself. And if it turns out Ted is is making bombs, blowing people up, maybe you go deal with Ted yourself in a you know, like that's that's grim. I don't think he and I don't even know if I believe that. I'm just I'm sort of I guess I'm playing devil's advocate throwing that out there. I don't think he had it in him. Well, yeah, fair enough. It's a lot thing. You know what I mean? I just think he felt like it was better off. I mean, at the at the end of the day, like Ted was gonna continue Oh, Ted was gonna continue doing his 110%. 10%. Yeah. And you know, I mean, it's like it sucks you're betraying your brother, but you're saving countless lives. You know what I mean? And it's like, but I'm not saying he doesn't do anything. I'm saying he goes he goes to Ted's house and he, you know, he shoots Ted. He takes care of Ted himself, which is grim and probably unrealistic, but people from a different age would have thought that was the more uh how do I say it? Noble path perhaps. That might be the wrong word, but fair enough. I mean, yeah. No, there are definitely people that think that, you know, that's interesting.

1:37:39 Guess it all depends on your moral, your principles, really. Yeah. [clears throat] Um, I wanted to get back into the government. Uh, in your mind, what makes the government's use of lethal force morally justified in your eyes? Cuz we talk about distrust and the government's done a bunch of [bleep] I'm just curious. I mean, okay, it's [sighs] look, what is a government? A government ha is a body of people that has the monopoly has the monopoly on violence. They ultimately can kill you. You are not supposed to kill their agents andor functionaries. But obviously that power comes with enormous restrictions and should not be used lightly. Mhm. Like it's like they uh you know they go to execute that woman in Tennessee and they they make a a botch of it. Yeah. They they failed twice.

1:38:40 They failed twi right. They failed twice. How the [bleep] does that happen? Because Okay. Uh like drug manufacturers obviously one doctors don't actually want to participate obviously in executions. That sort of it goes against everything they stand for which makes sense. So, I'm sure the people who administer this don't administer it a the right way. And the drug companies themselves who make this kind of stuff, like, do they want to make poisons that kill people? Like, no. So, if you're going to have executions, I think I don't know, you you have the moral responsibility to make them quick and efficient, if that makes sense. So if you're going to do this, I guess you go back to the old standards of and I and I like and I don't think the old standards ex electroecution. I think that's [bleep] up, too. Like it's, you know, it's the it's firing squad. It's hanging.

1:39:39 I guess it's beheading. Like if Greg was Greg the God Emperor of America. Yeah. Yeah. I would give people those options. You know, you can be beheaded, firing squad, or the hanging. And I might, depending on your crime, I might even give you like the choice first sort of thing or have it in the my legal code. Okay. And you know what? It's actually a good springboard into the next question because there's that one guy uh he wanted to die by firing. Yes, I remember. I I I I know what you're talking about. What's his name? I don't remember his name. Was it in the 70s? He was like No, wait. This this was somebody recently. Somebody recently who did this? Yeah. Oh, somebody recently I believe he committed a mass shooting. He was in the military. Oh, you Oh, yes. No, you're talking about the guy. But that's a that truly is a military. That's the That's the Fort Hood guy. Yes. Yes. And he wanted it to be televised.

1:40:37 Oh, did you not hear about that? Yeah, I did hear about that. I wasn't How does this make sense? I think by nature executions I don't public's the wrong word like I wouldn't televise them but they [snorts] should be public like there needs to be witnesses making sure it is if this makes sense done ethically okay have you um I understand what you're like it shouldn't be a spectacle it's not I don't want to make it right it's not a spectacle but say what that god do you watch uh um what the [bleep] was it? It's the It was It was a show on Netflix recently, like a miniseries about James Garfield. Mm- It was God, what the hell was it called? H It was like It was like Death by Lightning. That That was it. Okay. Okay. I've heard of that, but I I I didn't watch it. I have to put that on my list. Yes. It's like Death by Lightning.

1:41:42 Okay. [snorts] And at the end, James Gau, he thinks he's going to have some like marvelous like, you know, again, he's one of these vaguely anarchistic sort of like l disavowed men in like the later 19th century and he he shoots the then President James Garfield. Okay. He thinks he's going to have some like funny little quip at the end and he gets hung like in a prison like in the courtyard. There are people watching it. It's mostly sort of like press figures or people that I think are like they have to be there. He makes sort of a shitty joke. No one laughs. They all just look at him really cold and then he just gets hung. And the point is like no one likes this guy and no one's going to remember this man and no one does. If you ask who is, you know, why is James Gau famous? They wouldn't they wouldn't a they would have no [bleep] idea who he was and you know there's no context about him. That's sort of how execution should be.

1:42:44 Like there should be people that have to watch it or I guess people I guess if they're if someone murdered your kids and you wanted and they gave you the chance, hey, he's going to be executed. You can go watch. I don't know if I'd want to be a part of that, but you could take up that option. Okay. Right. Just but I wouldn't make it a spectacle for the public. Yeah. And you know what? That said, how do you think broadcasting and execution would shape the public's relationship with violence? [sighs] I mean, aren't we already sort of fraying at the edges as it is? Like I feel like sort of our our social norms are sort of on retreat. Um or our social decorum I should say is on retreat. Like I feel like it's way easier now to basically freak out on any sort of public device and scream almost anything you want. You know, and this this probably has a lot to do with Trump because he obviously made that he got away with it for so long.

1:43:53 So now it's just, aren't we sort of already inundated with violence? I mean, we've almost entirely been in a state of war ever since 9/11. We had like a two-year break after Biden pulled us out of Afghanistan. Aren't we sort of already numb to it some degree? I mean, it's like to the point where you don't even question it in your day-today life. I mean, we've had so many spree killings now. It honestly feels like they don't even really garner that much attent like I'm sure hopefully there's none, but you don't even really hear about them anymore, do you? Maybe people have moved on or maybe they just I mean, not for I'm at a point where I hear about it and I'm just like, damn, another one. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. You like you don't even You don't stop in your [bleep] tracks anymore. That's for damn sure. No, you don't stop in your tracks. You don't think anything of it. were already desensitized. Like I think that's sort of stupid, especially because I believe the the guy who did the Fort Hood shooting, wasn't he like vaguely affiliated with either ISIS or al-Qaeda? I'm not sure.

1:45:02 So yeah, I'll be honest. I just knew he was a military guy. He was a military guy. Yeah. But like he either joined ISIS or declared allegiance to ISIS or whatever. So killing those people publicly is sort of giving them what they want. Okay. And in some respect, like they want to see themselves be martyed. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and I'm not even saying like doing that isn't a crime that deserves death. Okay. But like there's a way to do it. Like that's I don't know, a little smarter. Of course, this is the Trump administration we're talking about. So they they can't they're like allergic to do anything with subtlety and or intelligence. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] That's a shitty thing to say, but like same [bleep] It's your opinion. You know what I mean? I'm not here to disagree with you. That's something that's utterly outrageous, but that kind of falls into my belief system as well. Yeah.

1:45:58 [bleep] You know, but uh my my last question for you on the wrap up, King, um what could persuade you to change a deeply held belief about guns? a deeply held belief. What could cause me to change my mind? I mean, in fairness, I've never met anyone like, you know, like again, this goes in part with a gun violence at one part being obviously seemingly too prevalent in our society, but also being in reality not a huge deal. Not like, have you ever met anyone that's like I've met people that have technically been almost shot by accident? People that got wounded in combat. I've never actually met someone who like suffered direct or at least I don't think so who have met someone who has suffered direct violence from like a gun crime or robbery or anything like that. I've never met anybody like that.

1:47:08 Like I don't know if you have. I never have. Maybe if I met someone like that, maybe they make a difference or argument for me. But I I don't know. I just I don't [sighs] I actually don't think that I don't think it's truly that many people have ever experienced that kind of moment, if that makes sense. Fair enough. Like most of us aren't. You know, maybe if I hung out with more Coke dealers, that might be a different I might [laughter] have a different sort of answer to that question. But, you know, I met people all the time. I've been stung up. You know what I mean? Like, I just don't know those people. [laughter] Oh my god, that that one tickled me. Oh [laughter] [bleep] that's funny as hell, bro. God, dude, it's been it's been a pleasure to sit here with you. Oh, yeah. as always. I very much appreciate [bleep] I [bleep] love you, brother. I [bleep] love you, man.